Barack Obama

[ORGANDONOR]

But can we at least agree that you shouldn't be allowed to carry a gun on your person on a public bus or train or airplane?

NO i will not agree with that at all why should i give up my right to have a gun on my person where ever i may go thats nuts and just another why to do what thay wont to get them out of are hands all together and take them away for ever. And you may say thats not going to happen but it will look at all the other counties thats not aloud to have guns and what thay turned out to be like. There leaders do alot of stuff that thay shouldnt be doing and thay have no way of stoping it because thay have no way to stand up and say we wont let it happen and cant stand up and we wont let it happen we do. When you take away are guns you take away are way to stick up for are slife and let shit happen do you want that thats why we dont have a queen by the way think of that. it happend once it will happen again.

[SmurfSniper]

nat i know they arent taking guns if but the limits they are putting on them is really rediculous... and as far as carrying a gun on a bus, train or any other sort of public transportation.... if im not mistaken that was in play before

[Natalya]

and as far as carrying a gun on a bus, train or any other sort of public transportation.... if im not mistaken that was in play before

Organ Donor didn't seem to notice that bit. >_> This leads me to believe that he doesn't in fact carry a gun on his person everywhere he goes, so I'm not sure why he's complaining about this.

[Nemesis Breaker]

oh jesus its a politics thread. *goes hide in cave*

[easytarget]

Hey, go spend all your money and get as many loans as you can and live your life that way. Then tell me debt is not a problem. But no, the government didnt just bail out "to big to fail" banks right? That doesnt increase our debt? Wait, the car industry wants a bail out? Oh, lets give them money!! Hey, you guys probably haven't heard but now the dairy industry wants a bail out too! I don't even care which president got us into it (be it Bush, Carter, dems and repubs are the same to me). If the debt issue isnt solved, changing tax codes, building infrastructure or anything will not work. Lets find the bottom and then work our way up, not dig a bigger hole and have me, you and numerous of our generations pay for it later.

~Maller

[Natalya]

Hey, go spend all your money and get as many loans as you can and live your life that way. Then tell me debt is not a problem.

Because of the Federal Reserve, our economy is actually entirely dependent upon us constantly doing this. Ever get a car loan or take out a mortgage or use a credit card? If no one did this we would be just as screwed as we are now.

[ORGANDONOR]

yes i do have a gun and yes i do carry a gun on my person and i allways will carry one no me and i got a shot gun in the back of my truck at all times to so i dont know what your thinking im a hick. And when have you ever been aloud to have a gun on a plain never.

[rjk83]

As an update:
Tomorrow, during a testimony about the Fed's "transparency", they are supposed to announce that the total cost for bailouts and TARP will be up to or around $23 Trillion... I think we are going past "spending our way out of the recession" and crossing over into putting America and American Debt into a unrepairable state.

For reference, the total US National Debt to date (which previously, everyone seemed to think was amazingly high and now seems to be a drop in the bucket) is about $11.6 Trillion. The total American GDP is a bit over $13 Trillion... This amount of money is like spending $32 Million every day since the year 0.

"In fact, $23 trillion is more than the total cost of all the wars the United States has ever fought, put together. World War II, for example, cost $4.1 trillion in 2008 dollars, according to the Congressional Research Service.
Even the Moon landings and the New Deal didn’t come close to $23 trillion: the Moon shot in 1969 cost an estimated $237 billion in current dollars, and the entire Depression-era Roosevelt relief program came in at $500 billion, according to Jim Bianco of Bianco Research"

I'm not just a crazy person. This is happening


Also for reference, TARP is the Troubled Assets Relief Program.(aka, the big bailout plan that was passed not too long ago)... Also in the past 7 months, the Special Inspector General for TARP (SIGTARP) has launched over 35 criminal and civil investigations re: the misuse of taxpayer money.

[Natalya]

Then I have 2 questions:

First off where is this 23 trillion number coming from? TARP wasl ike 700-something billion, how could it possibly cost that much?

Secondly, what would you have us do -- absolutely nothing & spend no money at all to fixthis problem?

[rjk83]

First off where is this 23 trillion number coming from? TARP wasl ike 700-something billion, how could it possibly cost that much?

The estimates that I know of are over $6 trillion for the freddie / fannie bailouts, the almost $1 trillion that was sent out from congress, over $7 trillion made available by the fed for bailouts of which only $2 trillion has been spent to date, and the rest, I don't know. This is the point, I don't know and you don't know and the "openness" & "transparency" that has been touted isn't a reality. However, the guy that is in charge of auditing this, the Special Inspector General for the TARP money, is testifying before congress today about the lack of transparency and the very real possibility that this will reach $23 Trillion.

Secondly, what would you have us do -- absolutely nothing & spend no money at all to fixthis problem?

I am clearly a conservative. Everything about me and my political thoughts are conservative. (note: conservative and not republican) I know that you can spend money in a positive way that will stimulate growth of business, I have seen republicans and democrats both do this. I will probably disagree with any liberal on almost all fundamental issues, but I do agree, as do most conservatives, that money needs to be spent to get us out of a recession, but you can't possibly believe that this is needed? Two times the total amount of debt that our country has ever accumulated. Spending the amount of money that doubles or triples our nations total debt and is over 2 times the total annual GDP for the entire country is crippling. I wouldn't expect to hear too much on the news about it of course so I hope that is not where people get their information. (yadda yadda, huge media bias to either the left side (everywhere besides fox news) or leaning to the right (fox news).

I just can't believe that even the most left person on the planet (outside of congress) could look at a number like that compared to our total national debt and GDP and say that it is necessary and/or OK for my government to spend that much money.

I may not have the direct answer or the fix for it, and it is not my job to do so, but that doesn't mean that I can't look at something and cry foul, and know that this is an incredibly bad deal. I still posses the common sense needed to look at this and say that something is wrong, there has been no transparency, 35 investigations into misuse of money, up to 20x the amount that was reported on originally. It's still my tax money and going to be my retirement and livelihood soon.