Palin Interview (teehee)

[Kumar]

I know this isn't patriotic, but in my opinion, people who join the military lack sense.

Dont understand that part. Pretty much everything else I agree with. The only thing I didn't lack sense was partying my scholarships away. I joined the navy as a nuclear mechanic and now I'm an operator at a nuclear power plant in Florida. I like what I do and I feel I have a lot more sense then most people. Obama also doesn't support nuclear energy so therefore I dislike him more.

[pathboy]

Your right Kumar, that sounded harsh. My side point was that in our current foriegn policy stance, I don't think your average 18 yr old understand how dangerous a carreer the military is at the moment. I know tons of success stories from people that went through the military and were smart enough to opt into some of the sweeter position (or like my good friend who went to Anapolis and is a pilot now for Delta). But this path is still thick with risk. I would and do council young people I know to reconsider joining until they get their college degree first.

I almost applied myself as part of a medical scholarship but consulted a lawyer to help me understand what I was getting into. The one thing the lawyer pointed out was that once you joined and took that oath, you never could really 'leave'. Oh they might let you get on with your life, but if they REALLY need you, they have the legal right to yank yer ass back in (this has happened to surgeons in just about every major US conflict).

I like CS cause you get to respawn. Life is not so easy.

Pathboy

[Natalya]

Blah blah blah on both sides.

Both mainstream candidates will not do anything to help or "change" our current situation now. As crazy as he is, I'd vote for Ron Paul over any of these chumps.

I kinda like Ron Paul actually, but would never vote for him. I think it's great that he wants to get rid of the Federal Reserve, leave Iraq immediately, and re-open the 9/11 commission, but then at the same time he completely hates any and all social programs, so I really don't know what to say about him. If it was Ron Paul vs McSame I'd go Ron Paul any day but Ron Paul vs Obama, not so much...

PS: Psst! Easy! Congress controls the budget! Who controls Congress?

Rupert Murdock, The CFA, and David Rockefeller.

That is the VA's fault.

And who runs the VA?

I personally wanted Huckabee bc he supported the fair tax.

The Fair Tax isn't fair. :[


On to Pathboy since he quotes me a lot:

Well, actually, no. I'm a libertarian who focuses my decision based on the tax code proposal.

I didn't say you were a neo-liberal, I said that you bought into their ideas. Additionally, the libertarian party is almost synonymous with neo-liberalism anyway so you probably are one, you just don't know it. Then again you probably don't even know what Neo-Liberal actually means, and the only candidate running who isn't one is Ron Paul. Obama, McSame, Biden, Palin, Clinton, Huckabee... All neo-liberals.

I actually READ and figure out how much each candidate is going to cost me. I run a bussiness that employs about 12 people (all getting full benifits and health coverage I might add), and so it's just practical sense to look deeper into the issues. Obama's plan clearly states that he'll reverse the Bush tax cuts and my Federal Tax rate will go up 40% (meaning the government gets 40cents of every dollar right off the top). But that's only the start of the big screw! He's taking away the Medicare/Social Security cap (the cap which exists now means you only have to pay the 8% tax for the first 100K you make, then it goes away)! So that means everyone will have to pay the 8% tax for as much as they make. Oh yeah! It's a "matched tax" meaning your employer matches this payment to the government! Oh yeah! I'M MY OWN EMPLOYER SO I PAY BOTH HALVES! That means I get to pay the whole 15% rate for my income! Party time!

Let's recap! At this point, the Obama plan is to change my federal tax rate to 55%! State income tax anyone? Sales tax anyone? Anyone pay real estate taxes? If Obama get's elected, I'll be lucky to keep 30 cents for every dollar I make past 200K. I was thinking of expanding my bussinss (to make more money of course, but it would also create new jobs), but if Obama gets elected, forget that! Why work so hard if the government is just gonna take it away? Great! The tax plan is encourageing lazyness! Malthus was right!!!

If you make over (I think it's 156K, I forget), then yes vote Republican every day of the week, but for the 95% of us who don't, it's bad for us. Terrible actually. Also why would you want to pay for your employee's health care if there was an option to not pay at all because everyone got health care?

Now for the fun part:

"People who win the lottery and become rich without working much and were genuinely lazy."

People who play and win the lottery are usually stupid. It's a 'stupid tax' if you think about it. Track them 5 years later and they're mostly divorced, poor, and owe a crap load of back taxes. Ironic, huh?

No argument here.

"People born into rich families who inherited money from their parents."

You got me here. But they tend to be a well educated lot? I'm sure Obama would fix this by forcing everyone to give all thier money to the government upon thier death. That'd be more fair, right?

You actually believe that? *shoots self*

"People who worked hard and got stable corporate jobs, only to learn that the company they were working for was Enron and suddenly their lives were ruined because of its collapse."

Get another job? Work some more? Take it from me, losing your job doesn't 'ruin' your life. Neither does a house fire that destroys everything you own. Trust me, I've been through both. Why should they get any of my money? I really don't get it.

Enron was problematic because suddenly thousands of people all with the same tech skills were out of job at the same time in a tech sector economy that was already hurting because of the .com bust of the late 90's. I'm sure most of them have picked up the pieces and gotten new jobs and moved on with their lives, but it was pretty bad for them at that point since the market was flooded with people who all had the same credentials and few opportunities.

"People who were born poor, joined the armed forces becuase it was their only way out of poverty//not enough opportunities, and got PTSD from serving in Vietnam, and could never get a job again because of this, then wound up on the streets."

I know this isn't patriotic, but in my opinion, people who join the military lack sense. I mean, this is a job where people will shoot real guns at you! I was 'born poor', grew up in a trailer park, and took the way out that is given to every American. Instead of goofing off, I studied. Itstead of going to parties on the weekends, I took a 2nd and 3rd job. I borrowed insane amounts of money to get through many, many years of school (120K to be specific). I put off all the fun things in life to work for a better life. Now Obama is telling me I have to also pay for all those who were TOO FAT, LAZY, OR STUPID to do the same. Rewarding unwise or flat out stupid behavior is conterproductive.

That's just plain mean.

The really sad thing Nat is that 98% of the American people have no clue how the government works, aquires money and spends it. Democrat or Republican won't change most of the issues the left are most venting about. The war in Iraq might end, but another will take it's place. The ecomomy? It'll continue to suck for a while. How much should I have to pay? I thought last year's tax bill was my fair shair. Obama didn't think so though. He want's more.

Pathboy

PS: Who goes to prison these days anyways??? Meth addicts? Dumb asses? Don't even get me started on the prison systems. Follow the law. It's not that complicated. While you may find the fact that people profiting from running prisons offensive, I find paying for room, board, food, and cable TV for the guy that murdered my cousin equally unpalatable. Legalize marijana and we'll set free the only people I feel sorry for. The rest can rot.

You actually DO pay for room and board for prisoners. In fact you have paid more ever since Regan privatized them because, like I was saying earlier, these companies are in it for profit and the profit they get is money that the government (aka your tax dollars) sends to these companies, when it was cheaper before to do it since the government isn't in the business of locking people up for profit. And yea, legalize Marijuana. Who's business is it if people wanna do drugs? Alcohol is a drug, but no one complains about that!!

I know this isn't patriotic, but in my opinion, people who join the military lack sense.

Dont understand that part. Pretty much everything else I agree with. The only thing I didn't lack sense was partying my scholarships away. I joined the navy as a nuclear mechanic and now I'm an operator at a nuclear power plant in Florida. I like what I do and I feel I have a lot more sense then most people. Obama also doesn't support nuclear energy so therefore I dislike him more.

Actually he does. Obama just wants stricter regulations to make sure nuclear waste is tracked and stored safely and securely, to prevent spent fuel rods and other such things from ending up in the hands of terrorists, or being dumped in an environmentally degrading fashion, as was done prior to the 1970's. Now it's a little better but there are no longterm solutions for nuclear waste that have been decided upon.

[easytarget]

Nat, socialized medicine has never worked, look at Canada. They come here for service because noone can get healthcare there. Government pays for it all but everyone goes to the doctor for the littlest thing and thus, there are terribly huge lines to get any attention so people are just fed up. They rather just go to the US and pay for it.

And how is the fair tax not fair? There is no arguement there. People see the high tax rate and go OMG LOOK HOW MUCH U RAISE IT BY. But really, it saves you so much money because it does not tax anything you save. But, show me your numbers and ill show you mine.

~Easy

[soul]

easy I know a large number of people who go to canada for care from the US because they cant afford it here

[Natalya]

Nat, socialized medicine has never worked, look at Canada. They come here for service because noone can get healthcare there. Government pays for it all but everyone goes to the doctor for the littlest thing and thus, there are terribly huge lines to get any attention so people are just fed up. They rather just go to the US and pay for it.

When was the last time you went to a hospital in Canada? Have you ever been to one? I had to go to the hospital one time when I was up there because I was violently ill. Since I'm a Canadian citizen as well as an American one, I get the same treatment there that Pasties or any other Canadian would get, and well let me tell you, it sucks to go to the hospital no matter where you live but in Canada they don't do all that insurance checking bullshit and don't try to see if you're even qualified to be treated. They just wanted proof that I was a Canadian citizen. Whereas in the U.S. when I went to the emergency room after breaking my ankle, I had to sit around in the lobby for an hour before they would even look at me because they had to process my health insurance info.
You know you say that socialized medicine never works, but when you look at the charts... The U.S.A is ranked #45 in terms of life expectancy of all countries. We're behind countries like Jordan, war-torn Bosnia, and Singapore. Canadians live an average of almost 2 years longer than us, ranking 10th world-wide. Don't tell me that their health care system doesn't work when it's quantitatively better than ours.

And how is the fair tax not fair? There is no arguement there. People see the high tax rate and go OMG LOOK HOW MUCH U RAISE IT BY. But really, it saves you so much money because it does not tax anything you save. But, show me your numbers and ill show you mine.

~Easy

This will take some time to explain, so bear with me. Fair tax is such that the richer you are, the better it is for you, while it hurts middle and lower-class people, who make up the majority of the population.

First example is with the current system:
Let's say you're lower-middle class and you make $30,000/yr and sales tax where you live is 5% (at least that's what it is where I live), and for the sake of round numbers, let's say milk costs $4.00/gallon. (IRL it will fluctuate between about $3.60 and $4.20, sometimes spiking.) Therefore, milk now costs $4.20/gallon. If you make $30,000 you owe $4099 in income tax, so you took home $25,901. Now you buy 1 gallon of milk per week, 52 weeks/year. This works out to be $218.40, which is 0.843% of your income.

Now we're going to assume we're using the Fair Tax... According to their website, the Fair Tax should be set at 23%. This means milk is now like $4.92/gallon. You took home $30,000 this go around however, but you're still buying 1 gallon of milk/week x 52 months/year so you now spent $255.84 on milk. This is now .853% of your income, an increase from the previous system.

Now if you change the numbers here, somewhere around $35K the percentages even out, and then the higher you make after that, the less of a portion of your annual income this is, but the lower you go, the worse off you are and pretty soon milk becomes 1% of your income, at which point you probably will stop buying it. Now you're going to say that most families make over $35,000/yr (the point where both systems even out) anyway, so this shouldn't be a big deal. Well, yes most households do earn over $35,000/year, but 40% of families don't. Two fifths of American families would get shafted by this, and this is measured in households... If you went individually, it turns out that 56% of Americans as individuals don't make $35K/yr, so either way you are hurting a huge segment of the population.

And that's just milk. Forget about other staples like bread or gas or whatever. Whichever you choose it doesn't look pretty.

[easytarget]

Well to keep it simple, yes you are taxed a shit ton when you buy things, but the money you save and put away from it will not be taxed at all thus granting a large yield of what you save. Start buying the used items which will not be taxed at all (second hand car for example), and well shit if you have the money that you have earned, buy a new item. It promotes people to save their money and stop excessive spending and using money they do not have. If people work hard and make their money however they make it, then they should keep it, not be overtaxed because you think its immoral to make money. That is basically what I see, it is money wealth envy. Most people are middle class or lower class, well let them work to get the money to advance. The income tax code does not allow this to happen and I think it takes away from the lower/middle even more. That is why I like a flat tax of some sort. I do not like when the government is in my business and just takes my money that I worked for from my income. Capitalism for the win.

~Easy

[Natalya]

Well to keep it simple, yes you are taxed a shit ton when you buy things, but the money you save and put away from it will not be taxed at all thus granting a large yield of what you save.

I'm fairly certain that I just showed you that unless you make over a certain amount, you don't save from this system, and end up paying more. Maybe you missed that but that's the fundamental flaw with the "fair" tax.

Start buying the used items which will not be taxed at all (second hand car for example),

Second-hand food too?

and well shit if you have the money that you have earned, buy a new item. It promotes people to save their money and stop excessive spending and using money they do not have.

Actually because of fractional-reserve banking our entire economy is predicated upon people spending money they do not have, usually through taking out loans and lines of credit. If no one was in debt the economy would collapse almost instantly, thx to the Federal Reserve. Individually it's good to not be in debt but socially, our current economic structure demands that we as a country stay in debt. And debt = slavery.

If people work hard and make their money however they make it, then they should keep it, not be overtaxed because you think its immoral to make money. That is basically what I see, it is money wealth envy.

Actually I'm part of the upper class myself. I just care for those who don't have as much as me more than I care about those who do.

Most people are middle class or lower class, well let them work to get the money to advance. The income tax code does not allow this to happen and I think it takes away from the lower/middle even more.

Again, in my example above I demonstrated that the Fair Tax takes away more from them.

That is why I like a flat tax of some sort. I do not like when the government is in my business and just takes my money that I worked for from my income. Capitalism for the win.

~Easy

[easytarget]

No you demonstrated again what I was saying. All people see is the high flat tax and go "omg" and stop there. Go ahead and compare numbers from the whole pictures of getting money from your flat tax and income tax. Compare from year to year how much you actually save from a flat tax paying your higher consumable (which we do need a way to pay for government processes), than from the income tax which actually takes away more from you to help government overspending. If you can do that, then you will have an arguement. If you are still stuck on, "look how much tax is on our foods", there is really no arguing anymore because of your failure to account for the big picture. And because of the income tax, you are right...for our economy to say afloat we need to stay in debt. That is why we need to cut government spending, enforce a balanced budget and get rid of the income tax code so we can increase the value of the dollar again!

~Easy

[pathboy]

This may be the single best explanation of how the tax system works in
the US, and the problems with those that demagogue it.

Bar Stool Economics

Suppose that every day; ten men go out for beer and the bill for all ten
comes to $100. If they paid their bill the way we pay our taxes, it
would go something like this:

The first four men (the poorest) would pay nothing.
The fifth would pay $1.
The sixth would pay $3.
The seventh would pay $7.
The eighth would pay $12.
The ninth would pay $18.
The tenth man (the richest) would pay $59.

So, that's what they decided to do. The ten men drank in the bar every
day and seemed quite happy with the arrangement, until one day, the owner
threw them a curve. He said, "Since you are all such good customers, I'm
going to reduce the cost of your daily beer by $20. Drinks for the ten
now cost just $80."

The group still wanted to pay their bill the way we pay our taxes, so the
first four men were unaffected. They would still drink for free. But
what about the other six men -- the paying customers?
How could they divide the $20 windfall so that everyone would get his
"fair share"? They realized that $20 divided by six is $3.33. But if
they subtracted that from everybody's share, then the fifth man and the
sixth man would each end up being paid to drink his beer. So the bar
owner suggested that it would be fair to reduce each man's bill by
roughly the same amount, and he proceeded to work out the amounts each
should pay!

And so:

The fifth man, like the first four, now paid nothing (100% savings).
The sixth now paid $2 instead of $3 (33%savings).
The seventh now pay $5 instead of $7 (28%savings).
The eighth now paid $9 instead of $12 (25% savings).
The ninth now paid $14 instead of $18 (22% savings).
The tenth now paid $49 instead of $59 (16% savings).

Each of the six was better off than before. And the first four
continued to drink for free. But once outside the restaurant, the men
began to compare their savings.

"I only got a dollar out of the $20," declared the sixth man. He
pointed to the tenth man, "but he got $10!"

"Yeah, that's right,' exclaimed the fifth man. "I only saved a dollar,
too. It's unfair that he got ten times more than I!"

"That's true!!"shouted the seventh man. "Why should he get $10 back when
I got only $2 ? The wealthy get all the breaks!"

"Wait a minute," yelled the first four men in unison. "We didn't get
anything at all. The system exploits the poor!"

The nine men surrounded the tenth and beat him up.

The next night the tenth man didn't show up for drinks, so the nine sat
down and had beers without him. But when it came time to pay the bill,
they discovered something important. They didn't have enough money
between all of them for even half of the bill!

And that, boys and girls, journalists and college professors, is how our
tax system works. The people who pay the highest taxes get the most
benefit from a tax reduction. Tax them too much, attack them for being
wealthy, and they just may not show up any more. In fact, they might
start drinking overseas where the atmosphere is somewhat friendlier.

Author unknown
______________

I don't feel guilty for being successful, partly because I fought and earned every single penny I have. Seeing the system from the bottom, I understand the difficulties facing those who start with zero like I did. I also see how the current system makes it so hard for small bussiness to grow -- Obama's plan would only make things worse. It's much easier to learn fancy economic theory and rhetoric, than to start a bussiness, employ people, and be successful. The American people are in for a rude wake-up call. It's a global economy now, and they are fat, soft, stupid, and lazy compared to our competion.

Pathboy

PS: One thing that I see on a daily basis that kills me, is people who say they can't pay their bills but still have cell phones and drive brand new cars. Guess they spent all their money on milk. Beer is cheeper. Water is free.