Getting GG populated

[Cogbern]

well lets see the only people that have ever gotten votebanned to my knowlage would me panda, silenced, and I, and being how panda and silenced dont play here any more I have no complaints. I dont see a situation in the future where the voteban is needed as mgungame admins are usually on. I vote get rid of it, but keep vote kick for when we try to vote map and theres ppl afk in spec.

[SmurfSniper]

dont matter who has been votebanned or who hasnt.... the fact is that when you even suggest it for something like that all you are doing is running people off. the only time voteban should be used is when an admin isnt on and someone is breaking major rules (like hacking)

[vince21]

exactly. and since there hasn't been a reason to use it recently and since cog says there's usually in-game or at least online, i think getting rid of it (at least for now) would be a good idea.

[rjk83]

I've only played a few times in the past couple weeks since things are calming down since my daughter is 6 months now and such, so forgive me if my experiences were non-typical but hopefully I can start playing regularly again. Here, again, are my thoughts.

As a precursor, Gungame server isn't really "dead" in my opinion, I've seen dead servers before and there is a vast difference between "dead" and "not as popular as it once was".

I think a fundamental problem that I disagree with is the level of "control" and granularity of the things you are talking about changing. For example, in the past few weeks when I was playing GG there was never once an admin in the server. That's not the end of the world, but the changes that have been made in the past 6-12 months make it nearly impossible for the players to manage the server in lieu of having an actual admin.


Let me give you a scenario. You and 5 guys are playing on GG server and there are about 1-3 AFK's sitting in spec. Your having fun and it's awesome. You won the last map and now the map changes to a huge map. Hey this new map is awesome but we don't have enough people for it so it gets really boring, really quickly. That's ok, lets votemap! You type in votemap and it says you need 6-7 players to pass the vote because it seems to be set at about 80-90% to pass. Oh that sucks, it is virtually impossible for me to get all players in the server to choose the same map and change it, so then, lets votekick the AFK's to see if that helps. Oh shit, we can't votekick the afk's because votekick seems to be set at like 80%+.

Well, lets just play the map through. You finish the map and the next map sucks based on your personal preference, what are you going to do? I'll tell you, about 90% of people will leave the server and go play somewhere they can have fun playing.


The moral of this story is that we have changed things so much due to fear or a complaint here and there that someone may "abuse" the system that now the system is defunct and doesn't work in ANY capacity.

I'm a conservative (republican even) and I fundamentally believe that less control and less regulations makes people happy. If there is no admin on and people can't effectively change the map with a 60-70% RTV majority, long term population is going to directly suffer. (I say RTV majority because the votemap system is flawed in the sense that 100% of the players could hate the current map, but if they can't agree on a map to change then nothing happens and again people leave). This same principle applies to votekick and voteban. Why regulate it? The "pass" rate for votekick/voteban is & should be 80-90% either way and if 80-90% of the players want to kick someone or ban them for a couple hours for some reason, then let them. Generally speaking, someone really has to be a bag of dicks to get votebanned, and even if they do, they are back in a few hours or a day.

Two things to speak to that I know will come up in response to this post are
1) the regs can be dicks and are not welcoming to new players... The solution to this is not to cripple the server via the ability for players to "self-manage", the solution is a mix between setting a standard in the server for "acceptable treatment" and growing a solid admin base that can essentially tell the reg's to STFU.
2) If someone needs an admin, there is "ALWAYS" one online that they can message. - I get this, and I probably have almost every NU admin on my friends list, and literally 50% or more of the time I was playing I didn't see anyone else on that was an admin. (late night usually as of late). More importantly, having to get out of playing and find and get in touch with an admin can be a solution, but shouldn't be the expectation or rationalization to gimp the server for fear of abuse.

I think GG server would need 3 things to get back to awesome.
1) Get rid of all of the new changes. RTV, Votemap, Votemute, etc. should ALL go back to where they were 1 year ago today.
2) Start building a strong and ACTIVE admin base that has a vested interest in the NU community and the wellbeing of the server. This is harder that it sounds obviously, but there are people out there I bet. There is a big problem with GG having a "locked down" group of regulars that are well known to not be welcoming to new players. This is where server standard and strong, active admins come into play.
3) All hands OFF deck. Getting constructive feedback from the regular players is awesome, but what I see right now is that we have too many "hands in the cookie jar". Prayerfully consider the feedback that you recieve and their impacts, but don't open it up to be a free for all bitch-fest. The admins and jr. owners should have their finger on the pulse of what is going on enough to know if something needs changed, and then you handle it "internally".
Also, while the opinion and thoughts of the admins of other NU servers are important, the GG admins and jr owners should decide what needs to happen as approved by Pasties/Sio/Jackd/Ender

These are my thoughts, not sure if anyone can make it through this whole post without falling asleep. The only other thing that I would say is that I would personally want to remove stats from the server. People get much more "serious" when stats are involved. I think that stats make a lot of sense in some servers, but I see more of a negative impact than a positive impact from stats in a GunGame environment.

Anyways. Hopefully I can have time to start playing again. I've been trying to get in to play more often and I really don't like to see GG going downhill. After all, this is a game and it is supposed to be fun and relaxing. From my experience, players don't react well to restriction with no alternatives.

Thanks,
drink_it_in

edit: Also, bots are a must have. They are invaluable in populating the server in "down" times like early mornings. The way it used to be was it had a set minimum of 4 people, if 4 players aren't on, it would load bots to meet that number. Obviously they would have to function correctly to be effective but knowing what Sio is capable of I think it would be child's play for him to fix any issues as long as he is aware of them.

[DoT]

Drink for president.

My (Predicted) Response:
- A lot of the GG admins have either left, or are active on other servers.

- Removing stats would cut our player base in half, as almost every round you see a lot of regs and players typing "rank", "place", "top10/top12" in "adminseeall" chat.

- The bots not working was the GG coding get fxed up when someone edited it. It might take recoding or a fresh install to fix, unless sio has already got that.

Other than that, I'm right behind you.

-dotty

P.S. I would really like to see you get stuck right back in where you left off at N/U, as I found that GG was best maintained while you and Smurf were Junior Owners there. As you guys were actually in there to make smart decisions. Just sayin...

[vince21]

drink, add me to steam. as for committed admin, i'd have to agree. i'm a new admin, but i have admin on gg, dm, office and office_u. i'm usually on later at night until anywhere from 1-3 am. so i'm kinda of a late shift admin i guess. i completely agree with the pass rate. a lot of times ppl want to votemap, you get like 3 maps ppl are trying to change to, which means nothing happens. if ppl feel that voteban is necessary then i'd be ok with it staying as long as we have admin in there monitoring the players. but like you said, there aren't usually admin in there so it makes it harder to monitor what they're doing. great post though drink.

[Jackd]

I agree with drink too.

But, nobody ever said we were taking anything off just to let you know including the voteban thing. I made the poll just to get everyone's thoughts. The other reason I made it was because their is a factor and names will not be listed here. I have received some complaints that the voteban is being abused to drive certain players out of the server for no reason other then they don't like the people because they are better then the other players or what ever. Not hackers but players are are regulars to this community. That shit pisses me off.

We absoulty need to build the admin base up again and we are looking for a couple of jr owners for that server.

Sooooo!!

I've had this discussion with Drink awhile back and this goes for Smurf too.

P.S. I would really like to see you get stuck right back in where you left off at N/U, as I found that GG was best maintained while you and Smurf were Junior Owners there. As you guys were actually in there to make smart decisions. Just sayin...

You just have to let me know when you are ready!!!

Thanks again for all the input from everyone!

Will someone tell Freebase to get his ass in here and post some feedback please!!
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** EDIT ** What was specify wrong with the bots?

edit: Also, bots are a must have. They are invaluable in populating the server in "down" times like early mornings. The way it used to be was it had a set minimum of 4 people, if 4 players aren't on, it would load bots to meet that number. Obviously they would have to function correctly to be effective but knowing what Sio is capable of I think it would be child's play for him to fix any issues as long as he is aware of them.

- The bots not working was the GG coding get fxed up when someone edited it. It might take recoding or a fresh install to fix, unless sio has already got that.